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Good vid, Alex.  Very informative with tech info, yet engaging.  That's difficult to do because you can easily delve into "insurance seminar" territory.   :lol:  

 

I love the Iwaki jumping when you kicked power on, lol.  24v pumps are nuts!

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Good vid, Alex.  Very informative with tech info, yet engaging.  That's difficult to do because you can easily delve into "insurance seminar" territory.   :lol:  

 

I love the Iwaki jumping when you kicked power on, lol.  24v pumps are nuts!

 

I tend to find that it's easier to keep things engaging and interesting when I don't script anything... this approach, however, does cause things to take a lot longer (especially when I insist on long takes... I'm not a huge fan of the jumpy, cut-up editing style popular with many content creators on YouTube).

 

As much as I'd like this sort of video to spread and be considered "required viewing" for those looking to really get into PC watercooling (much like the more in-depth stickies on XS and Procooling used to be), the reality is that it's too in-depth/technical for most people to bother with (just like those stickies, right?  :rolleyes: ) despite the content actually being fairly light.

 

On a related note: Everything is still pretty much set up (mostly because draining the full gallon of distilled that's in there and drying everything for storage is a pain in the feces generator)... so are there any other topics you'd like me to cover? (Bill? Jesse? Chris? Anyone?)

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I tend to find that it's easier to keep things engaging and interesting when I don't script anything... this approach, however, does cause things to take a lot longer (especially when I insist on long takes... I'm not a huge fan of the jumpy, cut-up editing style popular with many content creators on YouTube).

 

As much as I'd like this sort of video to spread and be considered "required viewing" for those looking to really get into PC watercooling (much like the more in-depth stickies on XS and Procooling used to be), the reality is that it's too in-depth/technical for most people to bother with (just like those stickies, right?  :rolleyes: ) despite the content actually being fairly light.

 

On a related note: Everything is still pretty much set up (mostly because draining the full gallon of distilled that's in there and drying everything for storage is a pain in the ass)... so are there any other topics you'd like me to cover? (Bill? Jesse? Chris? Anyone?)

 

I think the link to Martins flow calculator is a great tool, I know I use it a lot, and I think we should link it in our video as well (if you dont mind). I loved the fact that you talked about the whole subject in a very casual way, and not throw numbers after numbers that just confuse people more. 

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Agreed, as I commented on the video, good information and presented well.

Maybe a demonstration of parallel vs serial GPU loops? (if you have the hardware/blocks available).

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Excellent suggestion, Mos.

@Petra, here are questions I've been asked over the years

1. How do I determine size of pump needed for my loop?

 

2. When should I consider adding another pump to my loop?
 

3. Does a "dual pump" loop give me better temps than single pump?
 

4. Whats the best location for any water pump?

 

5. Do custom tops make any difference in performance, and what should I consider when shopping for a custom top? 


What I would like to hear...

1. Your opinions on the different brands of popular PC water pumps, Advantages / Disadvantages of particular brand?

 

2. Common problems with these popular PC water pumps, where to get parts and "How to" fix them yourself.
 

3. Any Pumps outside of PC market you've had experience with, that us experienced builders could use as Alternatives? Just to try something different
 

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all really good questions Bill.

Especially the dual pumps. How necessary is it really? and what's this deal with redundancy?

seems to me like if you need an extra pump in your loop, you really don't trust the manufacture.

are there really pump brand alternative. All I know is D5 or DDC.

whether its EK or Swiftec or who ever, a D5 is a D5 right??

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Maybe a demonstration of parallel vs serial GPU loops? (if you have the hardware/blocks available).

What sort of demonstration do you have in mind? 

 

I mean, two parallel configured GPU waterblocks in series with the rest of the components in a loop will result in significantly lower total pressure drop and, thus, higher flowrate through the loop vs two GPU blocks in series. That said, the flowrate through each of the GPU blocks would be halved relative to the rest of the system. So, you're basically trading GPU block performance for lower thermal resistance at the CPU block and radiator (which is, typically, a good trade to make since improved radiator performance benefits the entire system and video cards don't tend to be nearly as sensitive to temperature differences as CPUs).

 

 

Excellent suggestion, Mos.

@Petra, here are questions I've been asked over the years

1. How do I determine size of pump needed for my loop?

 

2. When should I consider adding another pump to my loop?

 

3. Does a "dual pump" loop give me better temps than single pump?

 

4. Whats the best location for any water pump?

 

5. Do custom tops make any difference in performance, and what should I consider when shopping for a custom top? 

What I would like to hear...

1. Your opinions on the different brands of popular PC water pumps, Advantages / Disadvantages of particular brand?

 

2. Common problems with these popular PC water pumps, where to get parts and "How to" fix them yourself.

 

3. Any Pumps outside of PC market you've had experience with, that us experienced builders could use as Alternatives? Just to try something different

 

These sorts of questions are pretty easy to breeze through:

 

1) While the relationships between flowrate, pressure, pumping power, and thermal resistance can be kinda complicated, it's easy to overthink things in an attempt to reinvent the wheel. The two most common options in PC watercooling are the Laing D5 (D5 Vario, D5 Basic, and the PWM variant that Swiftech offers) and the Laing DDC (DDC-3.1, DDC-3.15, DDC-3.2, and DDC-3.25, etc. Older versions like the DDC-1 (black impeller) and DDC-2 (red impeller) have been discontinued). Both of these pumps and their variants can meet the needs of just about any single system PC watercooling loop, which is largely why they've risen to dominate the market since around 2005. There are edge cases where pumps like those from Jingway make sense (DP-600, DP-600P, and DP-1200), which are commonly resold by EK, DangerDen (now defunct), and D-Tek (haven't heard/seen much from Danny in quite some time... likely in the same category as DangerDen now). The Jingway pumps are cheap, do not perform as well as the Laing pumps, and, from a design standpoint, more closely resemble small pond pumps. Their biggest advantage (at least for the DP-600 series) is that they're dead quiet when mounted on top of some TPE gel to absorb vibration. Two DP-600 series pumps in series are a great setup for systems where the goal is extreme silence (two in series can push a basic low pressure drop CPU, dual MCW60 system to just over 1GPM and provide redundancy... which is good, because I don't really trust the little buggers all that much).

 

2) In the vast majority of cases, this isn't necessary. From a performance standpoint, you typically start seeing diminishing returns once the 1GPM mark is crossed... so, unless you're going for an edge case (like a system with an extremely high pressure drop or, like the DP-600 example above, a system employing underpowered pumps), then that second pump is typically only going to shave off between 1-3°C despite typically yielding around a 30% increase in flowrate. Really, it all depends on how much a small performance boost and redundancy are worth to you given your use case.

 

3) See the answer to question #2. The only addition being that there are cases where the increased heat dump from additional pumps can overcome performance gains from increased flowrate.

 

4) The best location for your pump is wherever it happens to fit. Seriously, though, pumps like those from Laing and Jingway can be stuffed pretty much anywhere... you just have to make sure that the pump's inlet isn't facing down and that the pump's inlet is being directly fed either via a reservoir or t-line of some sort since the pumps are gravity fed (they are not self-priming pumps and can be damaged/destroyed if allowed to run dry).

 

5) Yes. This is briefly covered in the video I posted. When shopping for aftermarket tops, you're really going to have to look at the pump's performance curve with and without the tops that you're considering to see which is the best fit for your system. Many manufacturers still shy away from providing real data for their products, so you'll likely have to rely on 3rd party sources for performance information. For products that have been around a while, check out skinneelabs.com or martinsliquidlab.org (both started by XtremeSystems members that I've interacted with quite a bit over the years). There are also some newer faces in the watercooling community that are working to continue providing credible data to enthusiasts... so, keep an eye out for them in forums and such.

 

Bill's questions:

 

1) Laing's current offerings are solid. The D5's stellar reliability has held true and the DDC series has made great strides in the reliability front (the DDC-2 and early DDC-3.2 pumps really tarnished the DDC's reputation... but the DDC-2 was somewhat of a monster when it came to performance potential, it just came at the cost of reliability... also didn't help that many had issues with impeller irregularities). That said, the D5 still has a better record for long-term reliability than even the latest DDC pumps.

 

The Jingway pumps are cheap and usually work, so there's that. Oh, and they're quiet.

 

Older pumps like the D4 and the AqX 50z/MCP600 are still solid choices, but only if you like loud pumps (the D4 in particular is one of those pumps that will drive you to grab the nearest sledgehammer and either smash the pump or your own skull to bits). Stay the hell away from the old Danger Den CSP-MAG and MAG II LE pumps, as they were absolute garbage.

 

Iwaki makes great pumps but most really aren't ideal for PC watercooling (especially from a noise/size/power consumption standpoint)... also doesn't help that pumps like the RD-30 are quite expensive (typically around $250+ each and still require a 24V DC power supply).

 

There isn't a whole lot else out there aside from industrial pumps and pond pumps, neither of which being ideal.

 

2) Common problems? Well, when a DDC fails it usually results in toasted power electronics and/or a completely destroyed motor control PCB. Repair isn't really practical in these cases (conformal coating over surface mount components makes replacing the power electronics difficult and, obviously, a destroyed PCB is a lost cause), but there is a company that sells replacement boards for the DDC here and a thread about it in XS can be found here. They are not the same as the stock control boards, though, so the pump will typically behave differently with the aftermarket board.

 

I haven't seen many D5 failures, but the few I have seen were either due to balancing weights in the impeller being lost, bearing seat in the impeller chipping/fracturing, or a damaged ceramic bearing (you're not gonna fix these on your own and pump resellers/rebranders aren't going to have parts for you). There are occasionally D5 electronics failures, but they're very uncommon and I don't know of any readily available replacements.

 

3) Well, there are pond pumps and industrial pumps... Iwaki, etc... If you want to get really adventurous, you could look at positive displacement pumps (gear, lobe, rotary vane, etc.) but I'd advise caution here as many can produce more than enough pressure to start popping components. A small self-priming pump could probably make for some interesting aesthetics but I can't say that I know of one off the top of my head that would be appropriate for watercooling. 

 

all really good questions Bill.

Especially the dual pumps. How necessary is it really? and what's this deal with redundancy?

seems to me like if you need an extra pump in your loop, you really don't trust the manufacture.

are there really pump brand alternative. All I know is D5 or DDC.

whether its EK or Swiftec or who ever, a D5 is a D5 right??

Regarding redundancy, all things fail at some point... so it's not really a matter of trusting a manufacturer. Redundancy is a very important consideration in unmonitored or seldom monitored systems with high uptime. It's not really a big deal in an average system that's usually only on when it's being used.

 

As for pump rebranding, yes, a D5 is a D5 is a D5. Different companies can offer them with slightly different features (like Swiftech's PWM D5), but they're still the same Lang pumps.

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A few tidbits I forgot to mention:

 

While the DDC pumps do get hotter than the D5, it's typically not because the DDC is producing more heat. In many situations, the DDC draws less power, produces less heat, and dumps less of said heat into your cooling system than a D5. A combination of packing constraints and comparatively poor thermal management are mostly to blame for DDCs getting so hot while they're running. I realize that there are a lot of qualifiers in that statement, but that's because there are several factors that can flip things around, ranging from what aftermarket tops are used, to the characteristics of the cooling system it's being used in, and where on the performance curve the pump is operating. Either way, we're only talking about a difference of a few watts here.

 

If you're using a DDC, you really should be using it with an aftermarket top unless space constraints force you into using to stock one. Period. If you're worried about the warranty implications of aftermarket top use, then there's always the Swiftech MCP35X (it's one of the best performing options anyway).

 

There's more that I'm forgetting, I'm sure...  :rolleyes:

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To all the Master Modder monkeys , can you use boiled tap water to flush out radiators? I'm hoping that boiled is very similar, as it gets rid of most? of the contaminants that  Jesse mentions. Most top quality rads have no particulate (Black Ice, alphacool) but I still use boiled water several times.

 

It's mentioned around 5:25 in Part 2 of PC water cooling...https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpcfqzparo60c4f/Guide%20to%20PC%20Watercooling%20%20Rad%20rinse.mp4

 

I've read to alternate boiled with a bit of distilled.some add vinegar or mention over 91% Isopropyl alcohol. I dont know if this is necessary though?

 

http://www.overclock.net/t/884152/best-way-to-clean-out-new-radiator

 

Would like to hear advice and suggestions from the Mod Zoo Community . Thanks in advance  ;)

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To all the Master Modder monkeys , can you use boiled tap water to flush out radiators? I'm hoping that boiled is very similar, as it gets rid of most? of the contaminants that  Jesse mentions. Most top quality rads have no particulate (Black Ice, alphacool) but I still use boiled water several times.

 

It's mentioned around 5:25 in Part 2 of PC water cooling...https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpcfqzparo60c4f/Guide%20to%20PC%20Watercooling%20%20Rad%20rinse.mp4

 

I've read to alternate boiled with a bit of distilled.some add vinegar or mention over 91% Isopropyl alcohol. I dont know if this is necessary though?

 

http://www.overclock.net/t/884152/best-way-to-clean-out-new-radiator

 

Would like to hear advice and suggestions from the Mod Zoo Community . Thanks in advance  ;)

Boiling tap water is still tap water--it may not have much in the way of biological contaminates, but the mineral content will still be there. Remember, distilled water produced via steam distillation is basically captured, condensed, purified steam which isn't the same as a pot of boiling water.

 

That said, coming from old Thermochill radiators (which were an absolute mess), flushing with very hot to near boiling tap water until clear followed by a thorough distilled flush (to remove any mineral residue) is usually the approach I take. There is absolutely no reason to use vinegar (acetic acid) or isopropyl. Biological contamination is dealt with through the use of biocides or coolants with biocidal agents.

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oh gawd I coulda really used this video round about the time I built my first loop.

 

made a hell of a mess out of my ROG board when I pulled a water filled tube off my CPU. :huh:

 

and now I plan out a BP ball valve in every build from the get go.

specially if you have a leak, will save you many dollars, and much less grief!

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In my first build, I didn't use a valve, just a drain port out the bottom of the case that I used a stop fitting on. It makes it a lot easier, but also more messy than having the valve in line with it...

Depending on the configuration, it's not always that bad to not have a drain port. I've done a few in case reviews that didn't have drain ports, that I just used the optional res inlet as a drain port. Just tipped it so it was on top, removed the stop plug, attached the drain tube I use, and did it that way. It works, but as always depends on the loop more than anything.

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Wow, you guys did that the hard way...

 

1) Leave enough tubing slack to pull bayres about 4" away from case

2) Break the bayres filport seal, carefully work the inlet/outlet lines off the barbs and drain everything into a bucket

3) Hook air compressor up to one of the freed lines and blast the rest of the fluid from the system at 15-20psi

 

The air compressor trick will usually get things pretty clear but it really ins't a good idea if your system has any leaks or weak points that can't handle a little pressure.

 

So... employ this advice at your own risk and I assume no responsibility for any damage which may result from following my advice?  :P

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Mosquito, BungWirez and Petra thanks for the advice and info. I love all the easy learning together with you guys to make my builds a lot quicker with minimal blunders  :wacko:

 

This Forum , Bill Owen and the ModZoo vids on youtube are a great Learning source. I'm very thankful  :D

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Hi,

 

I just registered because of your great guide. Thank you for the great video series, I wanted to ask you what size of tubing you are using in this build.

 

I'm not sure what case I want to get for my first build. I like the Ethnoo Pro/Luxe optics but I want to have a cylindrical reservoir, it doesn't look like there is enough space in this case. What do you guys think of the Corsair 750D?

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Hi,

 

I just registered because of your great guide. Thank you for the great video series, I wanted to ask you what size of tubing you are using in this build.

 

I'm not sure what case I want to get for my first build. I like the Ethnoo Pro/Luxe optics but I want to have a cylindrical reservoir, it doesn't look like there is enough space in this case. What do you guys think of the Corsair 750D?

Thanks, and welcome to the zoo!

The kit came with 13x10mm tubing, but I typically use 3/8x5/8 tubing for the thicker wall (equivelant to 16x10mm). Thicker wall helps prevent kinks allowing for easier bending.

Depending on what reservoir you wanted to go with, there should be room somewhere in either of the Phanteks cases, but would also depend on what else you want to do inside the case.

Personal preference would be one of the Phanteks cases over the Corsair, but both would be decent cases

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Thank you for the fast response.

 

I think I'll go with 13x10 tubing too, I looks better in smaller cases, I plan to use 45° & 90° fittings so tight bends should be a big concern of mine.

 

Well here are my plans: 

 

I now have small beat up Antec case with a Ivy Bridge system in it, I'm planing to upgrade the GPU, Case, PSU and of course the air cooling to water cooling.

 

So I'm getting 

 

  • Either the Phanteks Luxe or the 750D
  • R9 290x (if the Geforce 880 is any good I might get that instead)
  • A Corsair AX860 PSU

 

  • EK Water Blocks Supremacy CPU Block
  • EK Water Blocks GPU Block
  • EK Water Blocks EK-D5 Vario X-RES 140 Pump & Res combo
  • 240mm Rad for the front
  • 360mm Rad for the top
  • 5x Corsair SP120

 

I might get alphacool rads because of their additional ports, might be more easy to mount those.

 

Later I want to expand the system with a 2nd GPU.

 

What do you think of this setup?

What do you think of EK in general?

Is there a issue with mixing nickel and copper parts in a loop?

Would you recommend an other Pump & Res combo? (I'd like the pump & res to be in one unit, but no bay res)

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If that's the case, then a lot of loops are in trouble since I think virtually all the fittings on the market are brass (cooper/zinc alloy), and a lot of coldplates are nickel-plated copper. EK and Koolance make nickel-plated copper blocks, and Watercool uses nickel and copper in theirs as well.

 

As long as you're using a coolant with good anti-corrosive properties, you should be fine, which means plain distilled water should not be used if you're going to be mixing metals.

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