Hello Munky,

If you have been having any issue registering, or logging in please email kyle@themodzoo.com.

Sorry for any inconvenience caused!

Welcome to The Mod Zoo

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

jassilamba

Make Modding Great Again...

35 posts in this topic

<<Begin Rant>>

What is modding??

I feel like lately the line between a build and a mod has been so blurred that a lot of people don't seem to know the difference any more. Builds with stickers winning in mod competitions just seems wrong to me. For me CES 2017 was a very interesting trip. Unlike most peeps who go there to see the cool stuff, I was more excited to meet some of the faces behind some of the great builds and mods that we got to see. Thankfully someone of the people who I met know the difference between and mod and build (you know who you guys are). Calling a clean build is like flinging poo on the work of greats like Bill, EEL, Cheaps, Calen, Dave, Bob & Rod, Stuart, Mos, etc. 

So I ask you... what is your definition of a mod? What is a build, and what is customized case?

I feel like that zoo hosts some of the biggest names in the modding universe, so I ask the Guardians of the Mods as to what would you call a mod vs a build vs a customized case. Every time I see a big box forum mod of the month competition featuring clean builds with maybe a couple stickers makes me wanna pour hot curry in someones eyes. I'm not a modder, I'm a builder. I may have customized some of my BUILDS with some custom parts, but I don't think I have yet to mod anything. So I ask builders like me out there (you know who you are) to stop calling yourselves modders. If you haven't really voided the damm warranty, it's not a mod. 

 

Here is hoping that we can clean up the definitions of modding, and make sure that people who do real mods and custom work (including scratch builders) to get the recognition they deserve. Nothing wrong with builders, I just don't like them to considered modders. 

 

Between I added a sticker to this post, so I guess it's now a mod. I should go submit this as my mod of the month entry.... 

 

Modders... Please make modding great again. 

 

<<End Rant >>

Don't get me wrong, builders/modders you all do great work and everyday I learn from all you folks out there. So don't stop what you do, keep the inspiration rolling, keeping pushing those boundaries... just don't blurr them too much please. 

 

Captain CurrySauce

 

sticker_intel_inside_7.5.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Me too Bill. It ticks me off when someone posts a build on the book of faces and call it a mod. Kinda makes me wanna mod their face lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, yay, a pedantic argument over the definition of terms in modding...er, building...er, customizing...er, smithing. Yes, smithing.

I use the term build like I use the word dude--men are dudes, women are dudes, computers are dudes, my kitchen faucet is a dude, etc. Build is generic, referring to something which was put together. A build may or may not contain mods, but the build itself is not a mod. From my point of view, a mod is any modification of a part for functional or aesthetic reasons. Yes, such a broad definition would also result in the inclusion of stuff like stickers, but calling stickers mods doesn't make them any less BS... I don't think that "lesser" mods devalue the term, but I do think that segregating terms in an attempt to create further stratification is exactly the sort of exclusionary elitist feces that this hobby doesn't need more of. If a build contains lots of mods (predominantly mods?), then I can see the usage of 'mod' as a plural to describe the build. Terminology gets a bit fuzzy as you transition from modded cases to mostly custom creations originating on a COTS chassis to, ultimately, completely original/custom/scratch builds. However, I think that lack of clarity is okay because the focus should be on the work and not the attempt to classify. The quality of your work is not diminished by the efforts of another and if you feel that it is, well, that sounds like a personal problem. ;)

Be inclusive.

 

*whispers*Smithing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I'm talking more about pure builds, with not even a sticker maybe. I'm all for being inclusive, I just don't like when builders get classified as modders. For me modders are like the kind of people I mentioned in my initial post, but most are builders. I believe in loving all builds equally (well not all). And not all modders should be modders (you know who I'm talking about Alex). Yes quality of work matters, but I do feel that there needs to be some segregation. A clean build with store bought sleeves, and hardline tubing shouldn't qualify a build for something like a mod of the month competition. A mod competition should have some guidelines regarding what a mod means. If I submit any of my review builds, they shouldn't be allowed. Instead I should be given a participation trophy and sent on my way.

 

 

PS: Say Smithing again.... but slowly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is an interesting topic, and it comes up in about every hobby I'm sure.  In my woodworking hobby it always comes up in the form of "Is using a CNC woodworking?"*.  That gets quite heated, as it seems to be a very polarizing subject. 

 

For this, if I was forced to classify things, builds = stock everything, just buy the parts and stick them in the case.  Tie the wires back, hide them under stock shrouds or motherboard trays, etc that's all just part of building, always has been.  

 

You start getting into purchased pre-made sleeving, LEDs, stickers, vinyl appliques, and even to an extent most bolt-on things, and I would start calling it a "customized build".  You built it the way YOU want it, with parts that you selected from various retailers.  You built it in your vision, to your tastes, so it's custom to you.  Did you mod it? Not really.  

 

You have to build your own cable shroud to hide the PSU and the wires from it?  You had to cut a bigger hole in the front of the case to mount a radiator?  You had to drill holes to mount a res?  You cut out a window in the old solid sidepanel?  You can't even RECGONIZE the original case?  All modding to me.  You took something stock, off the shelf, and did SOMETHING to it to make it function in a way that it didn't originally.  

 

It all has its place, but it's not always easy to compare the two together anymore; especially when so many case manufacturers have taken things out of the modding community and implemented them in their cases.  When was the last time we saw a case aimed at the enthusiast that couldn't fit at least a 240mm radiator (SFF ITX cases excluded)?  Go back 5 years, and how many cases DID allow for it?  You used to have to mod almost 100% of the time you wanted to watercool, now you can even buy a pre-built kit that's 90% "standard" watercooling parts... 

 

I think they're compounding subsets.  A Mod is a customized build, is a at the heart of it a build.  


Until you get into actual hardware modding, then you're in a whole new realm lol 

 

 

 

 

*Yes, but not "hand made" ... :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Petra said:

Stupid word filters...

HA! GOTCHA! :lol:

Jesse's Just hitting 3rd year forum burnout. 

Yes. The scale of builds goes from, "My dad put this together for me," to Nexxo on BitTech or Andreas, Who built a cnc and a bender to build a case.

Whether you can call it a mod or not doesn't matter. What matters is the amount of artistry put into it. Will your build be used to compare/rate rigs years later? Will it be forgotten, Or will other modders talk about it in hushed tones around the campfire?

Oh, and one of those 'greats' you named absolutely sucks at wiring and electronics. I won't say who, but...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite the topic I must say. Thanks for the mention in the original post Jessie. I can appreciate anything that someone did themselves. Competing in a Mod of The Month or another Mod competition with a build that is in no way modded by you is a bit disrespectful to the people who have poured their heart and soul into something. Yet competitions have never been a way I value my own modding and builds. For me the real prize is sharing my builds in a hope to inspire new modders to take a step into starting their own project; also the relationships I've built with others in the industry are my version of winning.

Mos has a great point and I share the majority of his points on this topic. It is frustrating though when I get 50 emails from people saying check out my MOD and they post a picture of an AIO they put in their computer. Then the word MOD gets muddied down into something we can all agree it wasn't meant to describe. This is happening more and more.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stickers only, wow, how lame.

At a minimum you had better put some paint on there.  For me personally, if I don't cut something on that case and add some paint, then it's not a mod.  It's just a build.  Also, don't get me started on Lights.  That's not really a mod either, it's just part of a build.  Truly, if you are not cutting and painting something then just how can you call it a mod.  Mod is after all, short for modify.  Well, how did you modify the case, fan, motherboard, vid card, or power supply?  However, lets look at some stickers, after all the 3m DiNoc carbon fiber stuff is still just a sticker.  But wow, can it add to the over all MOD if done right.  Should it stand alone, sure, maybe that's all you want.  But then it's not truly a modified case / build.

As was previously stated, if you buy all the parts, lights and cables, you are just "building" a computer.  If I use purple screws, is that a mod?  No, it's parts.

I have taken a case and simply cut the fan grills out for better air flow, but I did not call that a mod.  I modified the case but it for me that's just part of the build.  Ya' gota' have good air flow.

 

Mod = Modify
So, how are we going to void that warranty today?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of good points so far. I'd personally call a sticker-embellished case as a casemod, however far down on the scale it may seem - it's still modifying that case from a factory condition. Do we not call hotrods with vinyl coverings a modded car? That said.. I wouldn't have the audacity to enter it into a mod-of-the-month contest, not with most forums/contests. If you want to swim with the big boys, you show up. Maybe you make custom acrylic covers for your cards and motherboard/blocks that mimics interestingly shaped stickers that you've used elsewhere. The main thing I look for when I look at mods is overall coherence, that's what makes it art to me and raises it from the pack. 

My current build has modified parts, I wouldn't call it a mod (yet, there's still time)..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interesting topic, and hits home for me. I call my self a modder, but I in no way consider myself on the level of Bill, Dave, Rob, Stuart, etc. I know their names, but doubt they've ever seen my work or know who I am (nor do I expect them to). But back to the topic. One mod, I painted and cut-out holes for a 280mm rad on bottom of a Thor V2, and many other little thing to it. I called it a mod. Is this considered modding? To be honest I thought so, but I never wanted/meant to offend any of the pro-modders out their by calling myself a modder. Of course I've done many other mods, but that one was kind of the least mod.

  Now when I do custom builds with hard lines and such, I call them "Custom Builds" not mods. It was my belief that you have to make modifications (cut, paint, wire, etc..) to the actual case and/or components to be a mod. Then their is scratch builds, and I considered those to be in a league of there own (the highest league of modding).

This topic is one of the reasons I don't post pics or do build logs of my mods on this forum, as I was never sure if they were really considered a mod or at least on the level of most modders here. If my idea of what makes a modder a modder is wrong, please feel free to let me know and I will definitely remove "modder" from my bios that are out if in fact I'm wrong. I would never want to insult the pro-modders out there.

Know it kind of a short answer but I hate typing. Thanks for taking the time to read this and look forward to seeing how the conversation on this thread plays out.

Peace,

DeesMods

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay so probably one of the least qualified as I haven't finished any of the mods I started (yet, plan on finishing ROG800D), but my definition of a Mod is taking something from and original manufactured state to something that looks different (not just slapping a sticker on it) and enhancing functionality (Add hardware not designed to fin in the case) or aesthetic (paint or redesign) of the case.

For instance the mod I did for my brother in law, all I did is rip the case apart paint all internal panels and make a PSU shroud. I use the term Mod loosely as the only real mod I did was the PSU shroud.

just my thoughts :)

I have seen a lot of builds with Hard line tubes in them being called mods lately, I just shake my head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oooohhh, this is fun little exercise.  I actually find myself thinking about stuff like this from time to time, though I've put more thought into the gray area between scratch and casemod, an area I tend to end up in lately.  

I guess I'm in the same boat as Cheapskate and Mos, it's all a big sort of spectrum.  Where something becomes a mod vs. a customized build, I don't really know.  Builds have mods in them like custom cooling loops, sleeved cables, etc. but does that necessarily make them a mod???  Does just cutting a window in classify something as a mod???  I almost think you have to say that anything not stock is a mod and then start grading them out in levels from there.  

The one point where I think you can start to classify a distinction between mod and customized build though is, Who does the work?  A modder modifies their case and creates a mod, while a builder gets modded parts to build a customized case.  That may be the easiest classification for all of this, and it's still blurry cause not everyone can paint a case or sleeve cables, and then sometimes you have to farm stuff out in the name of efficiency and cost.

Personally, I grade myself on the amount of change I've done to the case.  Add a PSU shroud and some cables, or pull out the bays for a cleaner look, and it's a build.  New panels and lots of reworking of things and I'll call it a mod.  But I don't tend to hold others to that scale because it's partly based on effort, and I'm not going to detract from someone else just because something might come easier to me.  

Now when it comes to competitions and whatever of the month, don't even get me started, I'm salty right now.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DIY water cooling has fallen between the categories of "building" and "modding" as new cases no longer require any alterations to fit components. So it depends entirely on individual applications or projects with DIY water cooling.

AIOs? Definately not modding...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect the initial Jesserant can be traced back to that guy that classified a stock computer assembly as a scratchbuild. :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I once took out a rotary tool and cut a corner out of the thermal armor on a X99 motherboard.  It's what I would call a 10 foot side panel on mod though.  I measured way wrong and made the relief I needed for the 420 rad and fans too big.  It was needed to make the parts fit though.

That build went through a loop change, and now its back to stock heatsinks on different cards and one of those AIO coolers.  EK parts in sight....that will change soon.  I am on the dilemma of fittings and planning of a loop.

That said, I modded the motherboard armor.....but the rest falls under the "custom build" category.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/9/2017 at 8:06 PM, DeesMods said:

One mod, I painted and cut-out holes for a 280mm rad on bottom of a Thor V2, and many other little thing to it. I called it a mod. Is this considered modding? To be honest I thought so, but I never wanted/meant to offend any of the pro-modders out their by calling myself a modder. Of course I've done many other mods, but that one was kind of the least mod.

You painted it and cut holes in the case, I'd call it a mod personally :)  That's a lot further than a lot of people get when they build their computers.

 

On 3/9/2017 at 8:06 PM, DeesMods said:

This topic is one of the reasons I don't post pics or do build logs of my mods on this forum, as I was never sure if they were really considered a mod or at least on the level of most modders here. If my idea of what makes a modder a modder is wrong, please feel free to let me know and I will definitely remove "modder" from my bios that are out if in fact I'm wrong. I would never want to insult the pro-modders out there.

This brings up a point to talk towards.  In no way are we trying to get people to stop sharing on the forums.  We don't call them "mod logs", we call them "Member Logs" (which now that I think about it, that could be dirty... :blink:).  There is only one rule for that forum (thank you @Cheapskate), which is " PLEASE do not start a thread here until you have some actual progress to show ".  We don't say you have to be hardcore cutting up the case, just have pictures of taking the case apart, installing hardware, cutting holes, whatever.  We all have to start somewhere.  We're more about encouraging people to DIY than to be "pro modders" here (in fact, really only 2 of the staff earn a living at this)

 

Really, this was just a topic to stir the pot a little, get a little life into the forums and give people something to talk about :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great responses so far... and everyone has made some great points so far..

 

 I will reiterate what Mos said about posting on the zoo. Mod/Build/Store bought, feel free to share whatever you have. We are okay with you sharing dreams, just file them under the correct category.

 

@Cheapskate, I'm not feeling the 3 year burnout. It's just when I look at facebook, or at CES and I hear certain people call builds as mods kinda pisses me off. I'm glad that more and more people are building and customizing their builds as that moves the community forward. I'm also glad to see that some big youtube names are finally dabbling into custom builds and try their hand at modding. 

Just like anything out there, it has become more a popularity contest than an actual talent contest. 

Another great example of this debate would be are AIOs watercooling??? Well yes they are technically watercooling, but a custom loop to me a what is real watercooling. I used a EK 360 predator where I replaced the tubes with hardlines, that to me is still not using real watercooling, and is a customization not a mod.

 

Maybe we the zoo can start a mod of the month competition where I would like to see the following members as judges to select the winner:

- Bill

- EEL

- Cheaps

- Dave

- Mos

- Calen

Can we call the above the Modding Academy Judges??

 

At the end of the day, if you make it your own.... it's a mod. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, I need to search, do we have a "help" thread?

I need some assistance in the painting department for something my Kid wants.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, RcRon7 said:

Oh, I need to search, do we have a "help" thread?

I need some assistance in the painting department for something my Kid wants.

Check out the Modding Guides section.  Just a few lines below this General Discussion topic on the front page.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jassilamba said:

Great responses so far... and everyone has made some great points so far..

 

 I will reiterate what Mos said about posting on the zoo. Mod/Build/Store bought, feel free to share whatever you have. We are okay with you sharing dreams, just file them under the correct category.

 

@Cheapskate, I'm not feeling the 3 year burnout. It's just when I look at facebook, or at CES and I hear certain people call builds as mods kinda pisses me off. I'm glad that more and more people are building and customizing their builds as that moves the community forward. I'm also glad to see that some big youtube names are finally dabbling into custom builds and try their hand at modding. 

Just like anything out there, it has become more a popularity contest than an actual talent contest. 

Another great example of this debate would be are AIOs watercooling??? Well yes they are technically watercooling, but a custom loop to me a what is real watercooling. I used a EK 360 predator where I replaced the tubes with hardlines, that to me is still not using real watercooling, and is a customization not a mod.

 

Maybe we the zoo can start a mod of the month competition where I would like to see the following members as judges to select the winner:

- Bill

- EEL

- Cheaps

- Dave

- Mos

- Calen

Can we call the above the Modding Academy Judges??

 

At the end of the day, if you make it your own.... it's a mod. 

 

Firstly, thanks for putting me on that short list.  Not sure I'm judge material, but if elected to the position,  I will build a great mod . . . and nobody builds mods better than me, believe me.  I will be the greatest mod judge that God ever created.  I'll have the best mods.  They'll be huge. :P

Secondly, I'd say going hardline with an EK or Swiftech setup is real watercooling.  As much as buying a kit with components is.  You may not spend the time deliberating over parts, but you are customizing the kit to your build as much as if you bought all separate pieces and bending your own tubing.  A lot of this discussion really is gray area.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@B NEGATIVE-Um... That's like one guy here... and it's the name of his web shop.

As for THE ONE RULE, it's mostly about those people that have never even made a taco, and have no intention to. The ones that start a log and either say, "Now gimmie free stuff," or, "Can someone make that for me, for free? Oh, and gimmie free stuff!" 

It's a DIY forum, not the welfare office.

Also, I'd love to host a Sketchup competition, but I'm too busy with real life right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now